View Full Version : TKR crossposting...

Glenn B. Wheaton
2009-Mar-27 Fri, 18:52
Aloha Dick and All,

Dick it looks like your post in regards to the recent project has been cross-posted over at Tenthousandroads.com and the project and myself are pretty much being ridiculed and trashed. Seems Marv, Daz, and company can't get enough laughs over it. I am seriously getting irritated by this. No further discussion on this public board about the project please. I may move what has been discussed to the members only area. GRRRRRRRR


daz smith
2009-Mar-28 Sat, 06:22
I think you are overreacting - every public project gets ridicule - the amount of flak I took over being involved in the Climate change experiment both on IRVA and on TKR was enormous.

Now as per our Pem's on this - I made one comment
"marv, lol soooo funny!"
because I found what Marv said funny (watchmen fan and all) - but I'm not trashing your experiment. I also said:
"sounds interesting - id love to see the photo - spending half my life in photoshop im keen to see if it's as clear as I expect."

Being a photoshop, photography person I can tell allot form this. I did not 'trash' your experiment.

What I don't understand is why I have to get the Pem's - why not state the case directly here in public or on TKR - fight the fight, show the evidence and debate this rather than everyone just having tantrums. The only way to sort differences of opinion and to move forward is to talk - not withdraw.
So if there are detractors - which there clearly are on TKR (and based on the history of rv and its claims who can blame them) then debate it with them either here or there.

All the best...


Dick Allgire
2009-Mar-28 Sat, 15:26
Hi Glenn,

I'm posting this private email I received today, with permission from Tony. There is some intelligent and interesting discussion occurring.



Hi Dick,

First off I would like to say I regret and resent the comments made by those knuckle-heads on Ten Thousand Roads. Here we have the side of Ignorance and perceived Authority attacking rational thought and scientific inquiry. Maybe these guys are time travelers from the Middle Ages.

I could make out the lettering with some difficulty. I am sure there will be those who will say that we see what we want to see. That is why I would recommend that you downplay or not mention the perception of faces in the photo. The debunkers will seize upon this and play it up as equivalent to seeing images in cloud formations. This will divert attention away from the purpose and results of the experiment.

Pat had a suggestion for possible future implants in the past. She suggests that an anachronism be used - such as E= mc2 for periods before the 20th century. This would make it more more difficult for skeptics to challange the outcome.

Another paradox occurred to me: If the photo contains all possible implants from the future at the time it was developed, what if Glenn decides to go back now and implant something recognizable that we know is not there now. Since it isn't there now then we know Glenn will not do it. Does this deterministic fact preclude Glenn from exercising his free will to attempt the implant or does it require him to fail in the attempt?

We would be very appreciative to receive a copy of the CD of Glenn's session.

Thanks Dick,


Glenn B. Wheaton
2009-Mar-28 Sat, 18:53

There is an evolution to certain types of ideas and communication. Often it is not a case of laser precision or conclusive finality. The journey of this project has a value that can't be realized by a determination of success or failure. Success is a prize but developmental logic in dealing with issues that exceed our current paradigm and our response to them is as valuable. It all leads to the continuing definition of what Remote Viewing actually is or can be. When we write at length about our Remote Viewing experience and those types of applications we endeavor to undertake it is intended to stimulate thought and push our envelops. You ask why not fight the fight and show the evidence and while on the surface it does not sound unreasonable, at Hrvg we want further discussion. At Hrvg our members were present during the session, they have seen the message and the imagery. But there is much more to look at, to discuss, to accept, or discount. The dialog has value to us because it helps us shape our thoughts. We have an idea of where we are going and are not really willing to be shoved prematurely into some showdown of truth.

When Dick's initial post went on the site it was to put some of our group experience into the record. It lets you put into words the thoughts of your mind and since he was there it was authoritative and intriguing. I am thinking that there are many that leap to the end of the book to see how it ends but that is not me. I would like to let this unfold in a less convulsive way. I would not rob our people of a bit of intrigue and interest in a most interesting project. There are some revelations that I prefer they make based on their experience along the way.

The message to the past was a simple one and one that should not be there in the photograph. At least it should not be there if it can't be there. If it is there then just Imagine...

It is not fame or glory but evolution of thought in a field long stagnate. I would expect skepticism, and delving deeper to respond to skepticism is a good thing but mockery is not a good thing. I do not believe Marv's comments mocking me were funny at all and told you so in Pem. By the way the "P" in PEM means Private/Personal not "Public". Who would send you another Pem after that?


daz smith
2009-Mar-29 Sun, 09:30
frankly I don't want to argue with you because your making an mole hill out of nothing - look back at your emails - where in the email did it say PEM... errr nowhere.???????
the email was titled WTF - which is in fact swearing at me - so please dont lecture me on etiquette an email use - you swore at me instead of having a reasonable conversation.

and I didn't post the email from you that really slated certain groups out of respect of not escalating a silly situation.

So Glenn I would evaluate and look at your emails then please apologise there was no mention of PEM.

the "P" in PEM means Private/Personal not "Public". Who would send you another Pem after that?
And to be frank - if all you are going to do in emails is swear at me instead of intelligent discussion then i'd rather not have them from you anyway.


Glenn B. Wheaton
2009-Mar-29 Sun, 10:46

Agreed, I would prefer to cease argument. In America point-to-point electronic mail from one person to another is considered private. I don't believe we actually use PEM as some sort of caveat or flag on it, or at least we don't do that in my neck of the woods. As for my title "WTF" I am more than happy to apologize if you found it offense. Can't really blame it on anything but poor manners and too many years in the Army.

My second email was more cordial but I see you take offense there as well. Hmmm I view TKR as being an RV Hate site and PJ views Hrvg as a Cult. No news there. I am not sure if she or I will ever change our opinions.

On a separate issue you mentioned my failure to respond in regards to your new publication at http://www.eightmartinis.com and I can tell you that whatever notification you sent to me was missed and not ignored. I was not aware of it and found the publication very professional and easy on the eyes with lots of great content. Nice work.


daz smith
2009-Mar-29 Sun, 11:17
lets just mark this whole thing down to bad communication.
I apologise for my part in anything you find offensive.

We do though usually mark all emails and [pem] if they are private. Any marked so and I never pass them on. I really do not think any offence was meant on TKR and a couple of the people involved have said so - most await the outcome/results as they are very interested.

As to TKR -you are allowed your opinions and I'm sorry they cant be changed. As for myself Ill work with anyone and everyone who is actually doing RV regardless of method, school or teacher

Thanks for the comments on the mag - the offer is open and there for HRVG to contribute any rv work or projects maybe even this interesting one - the next issue is due in early July and is already half filled - the response has been very positive.

So please lets put all this behind us -I for one am interested in the results and conclusions of this project and its possible implications all round. So please keep us updated.

all the best...