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Thread: The Man at 11 O'clock...

  1. Default The Man at 11 O'clock...

    Aloha All,

    At some point along the way I am sure the Guild will publish the recent work dealing with our attempt to place information from the present into the past. We are all involved to some degree in this process. There are Taskers and Targeteers as well myself as the viewer of record. This was no small effort at any stage along the way. In the 2 years since I worked the last target in this project I have had a lot to reconcile about whether or not it would be possible to really leave some form of message in the past that we could discover in the records from that time. Devising a scheme on how to leave such a message has consumed a part of my mind for the last 3 years. The result would have to be something that you could see and understand. Its coherence must be able to trump any ambiguity; it must be a solid footprint in the past.

    Time is such a bear to wrap one's mind around that you must seek something to reference your own sense of time to. I am not writing about clocks or calendars but the sense one gets about time when one smells the pages of an ancient book or memories that arise from some reminder of your deep past. In those brief moments you can almost feel the "Time" of it. If for your next few sessions you sought just to approach the target work not with the tasker in mind but to solve simple riddles of time you may be surprised with the ease in which the past will become quickly recognizable. Time has a dimensional quality which we cannot penetrate without becoming a part of it. If you remote view a target in the past and are able to establish a rapport you get the sense of the targets time as you make and break contact with the data you begin to collect. Lingering or clinging to those small brief moments will make the data you seek begin to flow a bit easier. Finding little ways to anchor yourself becomes a challenge of sorts as the more anchors you can set the deeper you can explore.

    I am convinced that remote viewers who can reach out and make good solid target contact are much more than remote viewers. I believe at some point along the way they become Time Travelers. My logic in this is not flawed and there is evidence. There is a message that could not be where it is and many will not be able to handle it. Beyond the message is the Glimmer Man or as we have begun to call him "The Man at 11 O'clock" who also could not be where he is. The most intriguing is the Lady in the Glasses and yet there are more. Sounds very mysterious and will certainly be quite a story to tell. It will be interesting to see how Dick and crew puts this all together without scaring the bejesus out of the kids.


    Glenn

  2. #2
    Dick Allgire Guest

    Default More On The Man At 11 O'clock

    When asked once what it was like to play at Woodstock, Grateful Dead guitarist Jerry Garcia said that while he was on stage (in an altered state) he could perceive time travelers from the future coming back to witness the event.

    We may just have a photograph sitting in the Library of Congress that has a record of remote viewers from the future, showing up in that photograph, experimenting with time.

    Let me bring you dear readers up to speed on what this is all about.
    On March 9 this year Glenn Wheaton worked a remote viewing session in front of HRVG class, on camera with a video camera recording the event. Debra and I had selected the target, a person who lived in the 1800’s. Glenn’s session- every bit of it captured on camera- was stunning, more information than most people would ever expect a remote viewer could gather, given nothing more than a blind target ID.

    The person selected as the target is not spectacularly famous- not Lincoln, or Robert E. Lee, or Mark Twain, but it is someone history buffs might recognize. He led an interesting life and left a good record of his time on earth. A photo of the person was taken in 1875, and that photo is in the Library of Congress. Copies are available on line.

    After he worked the session on camera Glenn was not immediately given feedback. It seems kind of silly to withhold feedback after the viewer has just told you more about your target than you ever knew when you tasked it, but that’s how it worked. We didn’t tell Glenn the name of the subject. He went back and revisited the target person, and found a moment when his portrait photograph was made using 19th century Deguerrotype technology. Such photos are one of a kind.

    Glenn’s intent was to send a message to the past. To put a message in some medium that would persist and be evident today. If he were successful it would prove that remote viewers don’t just perceive some inexplicable record or imprint of a past event, they actually displace something of themselves to the actual event across time. If Glenn were successful it would also mean that remote viewers have the ability to generate some type of “affect” (however small) at the target across time. If Glenn could successfully put his message, say in an old photograph, it would show that he traversed time, and affected that moment. Heady stuff.

    Glenn flipped a coin- a nickel- to select his message. If the coin came up heads, the message would be: A HEADS W. All upper case. (Glenn wanted to leave his initial, W for Wheaton.) If the coin came up tails, then the message would be: b tails w. All smaller case.

    The coin flip turned up heads, so the message would be:
    A HEADS W. Glenn published this on the HRVG website.

    Glenn went into S-5 Theta Isolation and went to target. When Glenn does this a small part of his awareness remains where he is viewing, in this case in his bedroom at his house in Kalihi. But a greater part of his awareness goes to target. It means Glenn is at the target in a full experiential reality. He feels as if he has a body and is standing there at the target.

    He found himself in the 1875 photography studio where the subject was sitting for his photo. Old style photos like this require extremely long exposures. It why people never smiled in Deguerrotypes. They had to sit rigidly, not moving a muscle or expression for many minutes while the light photons were captured on the copper plate. As the photograph was exposed, Glenn (there at the target) placed himself between the subject and the camera and traced the letters H HEADS W. on the subject’s forehead. Glenn is able to revisit targets and replay the scene over and over again. He did this many times, each time etching the message A HEADS W. as the photographic plate was exposed.

    When I spoke with Glenn at the conclusion of this exercise he was both exhausted and rattled. He asked if Debra and I could come right over. He said, “I need to resolve this.”

    We met at Glenn’s house and gave Glenn feedback. We told him the name of the target, but he already knew. We found the photograph that was taken at the time Glenn visited the target in his sessions. We began examining every centimeter of that image, using computer enhancement to search for possible letters embedded somewhere in the photo.

    Glenn is a trained military image analyst. He spotted it first. On the subject’s forehead, what seems to be an anomaly in the emulsion. The process of Deguerrotype leaves tiny faint squiggly lines on the photograph, or least it did on this photograph. Most of the lines are random. On the subject’s forehead they resolve into some letters. You can make out the letters A HEADS W.

    The A is very clear. The H is easy to make out. There are three letters EAD after the H, which are not as easy to spot, but you can make them out. The S is very clear and the W is unmistakable. To those of us who have spent hundreds of hours taking notes while Glenn writes on the whiteboard, it even LOOKS like his penmanship, the way he draws block letters.

    As we examined the photo further we began to see other anomalies. The subject was wearing glasses. In the reflection we first made out a human figure, the tiny image of a woman. Then later that night we were at home, on our computers examining the photo and talking on the phone. We noticed another face reflected in the spectacles, a man with a beard, and then yet another face. Since we were talking on the phone we used clock terminology to point to the position of the faces. “Look, at 11 o’clock from the corner of his eye, see that face with the creepy eyeball staring right at you?” It gave us goosebumps, or as we say in Hawaii “Chicken Skin.” Faces that weren't there before were appearing in the image, staring back at us.

    And always, that small grouping of letters that should not logically be there: A HEADS W.

    Now at this point I’m sure you’re going to ask, “Okay, where can we see this photograph?”

    We need to ponder this for a bit. We’re going to have some folks we trust examine the photo and ask if they honestly also see the message. In the meantime we want to safeguard the image, if that is possible. The original is in the Library of Congress. We will order a high resolution copy from the Library of Congress. But if a remote viewer can go back in time and alter the photo, maybe remote viewers in the future will go back and put their own mark on the photo, and those marks are already there, because they did it already (like Glenn did) in 1875. This photo may become a popular test or “proving ground” for putting messages in time. So where we are right now, we’re trying to figure all this out, and we’re not going to reveal the photo just yet.

    I keep looking at the photo and pondering the scrawl in Glenn’s all caps style: A HEADS W.

    I have this question for Glenn, who grasps all of this better than I. Glenn, If future remote viewers go affect that photo, are their messages already evident? Or will they appear after they do their sessions, and then will they have always been there? When you first worked the target, was your message already there? The paradox issues give me a headache.

    This is a most interesting project. I believe Glenn did traverse time and did affect the photo. I plan on submitting this as a topic for presentation at the IRVA conference in June. If approved, we’ll bring the photo and it will be revealed at the conference and then made available to the public after that.

    Working with Glenn has always been the most interesting part of my life, and it is getting more interesting all the time.

  3. Default Aloha Dick...

    Aloha Dick,

    Life is certainly more interesting when it's...interesting. I am not quite sure I grasp it all better than you do but it has become a bit easier to reconcile since we have more data. The number one issue for me just now is understanding the mechanism of how it could be. As we understand the photographic process used in the time of the photo it seems the message is in the sodium residue, which was the wash, used to fix the image on the plate. This puts the message between the image and glass. It is more than likely a magnetic effect as sodium is paramagnetic and easily attracted to magnetic fields. Again propagation seems to be the player here. Perhaps the sodium residue was the only thing that could be affected in a coherent way.

    The paradox of the message is a bit more interesting. Was the message always there? Logic tells me that the order of time is sequential in the assembly of our perceived reality. I know that if the message is there, then it had to be placed there before it was placed there, and the time it was placed there was then and not now. A confusing sentence at best. To place the message would require information to move from the present to a point in the proper sequence of time. Now our reality is changed a bit but those who do not know anything about it are still safe in a singular continuum while we reconcile a branch continuum having two memories of what was and what is now. The paradox minimizes.

    I believe that this photo will become more populated with messages as others solve their own message puzzles. Their messages are there now but you may have to adjust your time reality to see them, regardless those messages were in-fact always there.

    Glenn

  4. #4

    Default Once upon a time there was a tree...

    This bears a spooky resemblance to the saying: "If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it really fall?" I think based on this experiment, the answer is...No.

  5. #5
    Rick Hilleard Guest

    Default Back to the Future !?

    [
    Greetings all,

    Well I have read this posting, and re read it, it has me asking a series of questions, that I am sure others will want to ask or shout out from the
    audience, when this paper is presented at IRVA.

    Please do not take the questions in a negative way as they are not intended as such, more to establish parameters etc. I hope this all turns out to be a big positive and is delivered up to the "old guard + newbies"

    I will highlight the text below and pose the question, hope that is acceptable?



    Let me bring you dear readers up to speed on what this is all about.
    On March 9 this year Glenn Wheaton worked a remote viewing session in front of HRVG class, on camera with a video camera recording the event. Debra and I had selected the target, a person who lived in the 1800’s. Glenn’s session- every bit of it captured on camera- was stunning, more information than most people would ever expect a remote viewer could gather, given nothing more than a blind target ID.

    1. What no frontloading at all ?

    The person selected as the target is not spectacularly famous- not Lincoln, or Robert E. Lee, or Mark Twain, but it is someone history buffs might recognize. He led an interesting life and left a good record of his time on earth. A photo of the person was taken in 1875, and that photo is in the Library of Congress. Copies are available on line.

    After he worked the session on camera Glenn was not immediately given feedback. It seems kind of silly to withhold feedback after the viewer has just told you more about your target than you ever knew when you tasked it, but that’s how it worked. We didn’t tell Glenn the name of the subject. He went back and revisited the target person, and found a moment when his portrait photograph was made using 19th century Deguerrotype technology. Such photos are one of a kind.

    2.How was this inofrmation ( if any ) passed onot him in regards to the photograph being in existence, and suggestions that he move to the time it was being taken?

    Glenn’s intent was to send a message to the past. To put a message in some medium that would persist and be evident today. If he were successful it would prove that remote viewers don’t just perceive some inexplicable record or imprint of a past event, they actually displace something of themselves to the actual event across time. If Glenn were successful it would also mean that remote viewers have the ability to generate some type of “affect” (however small) at the target across time. If Glenn could successfully put his message, say in an old photograph, it would show that he traversed time, and affected that moment. Heady stuff.

    3. When was the intent to leave a message at the site/photograph established, before, during or after the initial session ?, say on some of the numerous re-visits ?

    Glenn flipped a coin- a nickel- to select his message. If the coin came up heads, the message would be: A HEADS W. All upper case. (Glenn wanted to leave his initial, W for Wheaton.) If the coin came up tails, then the message would be: b tails w. All smaller case.

    The coin flip turned up heads, so the message would be:
    A HEADS W. Glenn published this on the HRVG website.

    Glenn went into S-5 Theta Isolation and went to target. When Glenn does this a small part of his awareness remains where he is viewing, in this case in his bedroom at his house in Kalihi. But a greater part of his awareness goes to target. It means Glenn is at the target in a full experiential reality. He feels as if he has a body and is standing there at the target.

    4. This presumably was the moment/time when the photo was being taken ?

    He found himself in the 1875 photography studio where the subject was sitting for his photo. Old style photos like this require extremely long exposures. It why people never smiled in Deguerrotypes.

    5. No one "finds themselves" at a precise location or time unless directed, what were the directives


    They had to sit rigidly, not moving a muscle or expression for many minutes while the light photons were captured on the copper plate. As the photograph was exposed, Glenn (there at the target) placed himself between the subject and the camera and traced the letters H HEADS W. on the subject’s forehead.

    6. So, directive of time and location was given/directed to/by the viewer prior to or at the onset of the session, or perhaps a directive during ?
    Glenn is able to revisit targets and replay the scene over and over again. He did this many times, each time etching the message A HEADS W. as the photographic plate was exposed.

    7. How many times did this happen ? Presumably while back in the S-5 Theta.
    When I spoke with Glenn at the conclusion of this exercise he was both exhausted and rattled. He asked if Debra and I could come right over. He said, “I need to resolve this.”

    We met at Glenn’s house and gave Glenn feedback. We told him the name of the target, but he already knew. We found the photograph that was taken at the time Glenn visited the target in his sessions. We began examining every centimeter of that image, using computer enhancement to search for possible letters embedded somewhere in the photo.

    8. Not being picky, but why examine every centimeter, when the exact location was already known ? I mean you state that he etched them into this chap's forehead !


    Glenn is a trained military image analyst. He spotted it first. On the subject’s forehead, what seems to be an anomaly in the emulsion. The process of Deguerrotype leaves tiny faint squiggly lines on the photograph, or least it did on this photograph. Most of the lines are random. On the subject’s forehead they resolve into some letters. You can make out the letters A HEADS W.

    The A is very clear. The H is easy to make out. There are three letters EAD after the H, which are not as easy to spot, but you can make them out. The S is very clear and the W is unmistakable. To those of us who have spent hundreds of hours taking notes while Glenn writes on the whiteboard, it even LOOKS like his penmanship, the way he draws block letters.

    9. Wow ! If they are that hard to spot then they must be really small, and to actually say that "it even LOOKS like his penmanship", well that is a big claim.

    As we examined the photo further we began to see other anomalies. The subject was wearing glasses. In the reflection we first made out a human figure, the tiny image of a woman. Then later that night we were at home, on our computers examining the photo and talking on the phone. We noticed another face reflected in the spectacles, a man with a beard, and then yet another face. Since we were talking on the phone we used clock terminology to point to the position of the faces. “Look, at 11 o’clock from the corner of his eye, see that face with the creepy eyeball staring right at you?” It gave us goosebumps, or as we say in Hawaii “Chicken Skin.” Faces that weren't there before were appearing in the image, staring back at us.

    10. This has me at attention, to be able to "see" all this from the reflection from a small pair of spectacles...is incredible !


    And always, that small grouping of letters that should not logically be there: A HEADS W.

    Now at this point I’m sure you’re going to ask, “Okay, where can we see this photograph?”

    11. Of course ! This is what everyone will be asking.

    We need to ponder this for a bit. We’re going to have some folks we trust examine the photo and ask if they honestly also see the message. In the meantime we want to safeguard the image, if that is possible. The original is in the Library of Congress. We will order a high resolution copy from the Library of Congress. But if a remote viewer can go back in time and alter the photo, maybe remote viewers in the future will go back and put their own mark on the photo, and those marks are already there, because they did it already (like Glenn did) in 1875. This photo may become a popular test or “proving ground” for putting messages in time. So where we are right now, we’re trying to figure all this out, and we’re not going to reveal the photo just yet.

    12. If established as "fact" Then I can see this being a game of "tag the photo" the new and latest game craze, created in the Rv community, and attributed to ...GW !

    I keep looking at the photo and pondering the scrawl in Glenn’s all caps style: A HEADS W.

    I have this question for Glenn, who grasps all of this better than I. Glenn, If future remote viewers go affect that photo, are their messages already evident? Or will they appear after they do their sessions, and then will they have always been there? When you first worked the target, was your message already there? The paradox issues give me a headache.

    13. Note...watch the movies Back to the Future !


    This is a most interesting project. I believe Glenn did traverse time and did affect the photo. I plan on submitting this as a topic for presentation at the IRVA conference in June. If approved, we’ll bring the photo and it will be revealed at the conference and then made available to the public after that.

    14. Agreed, very...very interesting.

    As I say folks these comments/observations are really me trying to clarify things in my own mind, before going crazy I would love to have some responses to the aforementioned, and hey ! Lets us have a peek at the photo !...please I am standing ( sitting actually ! ) here with much anticipation

    regards

    Rick

  6. Default Aloha Rick...

    Aloha Rick,

    No offense taken. We certainly expect to take a lot of heat from people about this project. For myself I don't particularly like to claim the outrageous and we are not looking to sensationalize our activities. This BBS is a record of our days together in the Guild aside from our personal notes and papers and I and others post our activities when something interesting is afoot.

    I will answer some of your questions and I am sure Dick and others may be in a better position to answer others.

    ----------
    1. What no frontloading at all ?
    ---------

    I received no information about this target beyond the Target ID. Dick maintains the timeline for this project.

    ----------
    2.How was this information ( if any ) passed on to him in regards to the photograph being in existence, and suggestions that he move to the time it was being taken?
    ----------

    All information in regards to photography was generated in the session being worked at the whiteboard on camera by myself. There was no prompting towards photography by any other person.

    My task was to take the data that I collected in the session and in the days that followed, and before feedback, revisit the target of interest and devise a means to place a fixed message in some record identifiable in the session work itself. On the tape I state that this man photographed himself. That photograph session became my target point in time.

    ----------
    3. When was the intent to leave a message at the site/photograph established, before, during or after the initial session ?, say on some of the numerous re-visits ?
    ----------

    That decision was made during the filmed session when I realized that my S-3 (site sketch) was a very old photograph. In subsequent revisits to that photographic session over the next day and 2 hours into early Wednesday morning I rehearsed and applied myself the best I could to pass the message to this past event.

    ----------
    4. This presumably was the moment/time when the photo was being taken ?
    ----------

    My S-3 was a photographic pose. It was my intent to place the message in this photograph or a photograph of this person relevant to the tasking. This was no small task and since feedback I have been sorting and examining all the photographs of this person I can find. The message appears in a single photograph that is held by the Library of Congress.

    ----------
    5. No one "finds themselves" at a precise location or time unless directed, what were the directives
    ----------

    I must emphasis that my S-3 was the starting point for all activities related to the message. This was the point in time that was of interest to me. I received no directives or movement orders. I followed my S-3.

    ----------
    6. So, directive of time and location was given/directed to/by the viewer prior to or at the onset of the session, or perhaps a directive during ?
    ----------

    I worked this target on camera for well over an hour and had a fair understanding of what the target was and state so on the tape. Also in the tape I reconcile where in the past the target is and when. I did not stipulate that the target photo was 1875 and probably couldn't lol, well maybe but...

    ----------
    7. How many times did this happen ? Presumably while back in the S-5 Theta.
    ----------

    Hmmmm an interesting question. Before I went to S-5 I spent several hours rehearsing my actions that I would attempt at the target. This project is in its 3rd year so past failure has shown me that casual actions produced no results regardless of how well I do in the session work for the camera. My response to Dick when he asked the same question was that I went through at least 100 iterations of scripting the message during what I perceived to be those moments when the photograph was being taken.

    ----------
    8. Not being picky, but why examine every centimeter, when the exact location was already known ? I mean you state that he etched them into this chap's forehead !
    ----------

    My S-3 was recorded on a very large whiteboard on an easel. I used my whiteboard image as my focal point during the rehearsals. The only clear space on the image that would accommodate my focus and text was the forehead. Etched is actually a good word here because that is essentially what occurred. All at Hrvg are familiar with hosting imagery on Blackboard. It is an NLP tool we use specifically for imagery. I will say that the message was a combination of small finger writing movements generating text on Blackboard.

    When I was given feedback on this target there were 4 people present, Dick, Debra, Sita and myself. At the computer I typed the name of the person they gave me and queried Google images. As I recall the 3rd image in the lineup was my S-3. I downloaded the image and opened it and we examined it together. The message is not perceptible to anyone simply viewing the photograph. You must examine it at a greater level of detail. The fact that it is not visible to the casual observer and is very small makes its coherence a bit more of a surprise. When Dick asked why it was so small, I told him I am not really sure how big we are at target. We may be no larger than a speck...

    ----------
    9. Wow ! If they are that hard to spot then they must be really small, and to actually say that "it even LOOKS like his penmanship", well that is a big claim.
    ----------

    As mentioned above it would in-fact escape detection and would not be readable even in the original photo plate. A closer examination of the fix residue is where you will find this message. It is coherent and indeed small.

    ----------
    10. This has me at attention, to be able to "see" all this from the reflection from a small pair of spectacles...is incredible !
    ----------

    It is actually quite spooky. I try not to think too much about those images.

    ----------
    11. Of course ! This is what everyone will be asking.
    ----------

    This image is getting more interesting and several things will happen when the image information is released. First every possible way to discount the possibility of the event will hit the fan. There will be some that are intrigued by the possibility that it is all as it has been stated and want to discuss it. Some will simply be confused about it and find it to difficult to understand. I have bit mapped this image at 10,000 pixels per inch and no matter what is said, the message will still be there. Currently it is a challenge to our intellect and I want to see it play out.

    ----------
    12. If established as "fact" Then I can see this being a game of "tag the photo" the new and latest game craze, created in the Rv community, and attributed to ...GW !
    ----------

    When Dick asked me about replicating the message in another photo my response to him was "Well what other National Treasure should I deface? Maybe another signature on the Declaration of Independence?". I think this image already is being tagged by others in the future.

    Thanks for your questions and I hope my answers help. Dick et All jump in anytime.

    Glenn

  7. #7
    Dick Allgire Guest

    Default More Answers For Rick

    Hi Rick,

    So many times in the past we’ve published projects and presentations that were greeted with little more than silence. Thank you for asking questions and considering this with some amount of genuine skepticism.

    If something is true it can withstand any challenge, so we invite you to challenge any aspect of this. Glenn was the viewer and he addressed your questions. I would also like to respond to your concerns point by point, since I was the main tasker on this project. Debra helped select the target and she was also involved in every step of the process from targeteering to feedback.


    1. What no frontloading at all ?


    There was absolutely no frontloading. Glenn was shown a sealed manila envelope with the target ID (E1B3-U4N6) written on the outside. He was not told anything about the nature of the target. He did not know it involved a photograph, he was not told the target was a person.


    2.How was this inofrmation ( if any ) passed onot him in regards to the photograph being in existence, and suggestions that he move to the time it was being taken?




    Again, Glenn was given ONLY the target ID. He was not told about any photograph. He was not monitored. He was NOT given movement orders, and he got no feedback during the session. We have the entire session on video with high quality audio. All information generated by Glenn came via blind remote viewing generated only by the target ID.

    3. When was the intent to leave a message at the site/photograph established, before, during or after the initial session ?, say on some of the numerous re-visits ?



    Glenn’s stated intent was to use the target as a vehicle for sending a message to the past. I have a pre-session interview with Glenn on video tape. HOW he would set about to send the message would be determined after he worked the target. We selected a target that we felt would allow him to do this, but we did not suggest how. It was a result of data generated by his blind session.


    4. This presumably was the moment/time when the photo was being taken ?


    In the 75-minute session Glenn saw the target individual at many times during his life. Glenn described him traveling from his house in New York to his studio. Glenn saw the man’s final moments as he died from pneumonia. Glenn saw him running for his life during a civil war battle. Glenn saw and sketched his wife, and described his lover in some detail. Glenn also saw him sitting for a photographic portrait. It was this moment of his life that Glenn gravitated to for his S-3 sketch. The S3 site sketch shows the person in this pose. Again this is totally blind, without any prompting or monitoring. Let me inject a personal note. I cued the target. I know he worked this blind. To watch Glenn stand there and draw this person with such uncanny skill was something that is difficult to describe. So much of what passes for remote viewing involves vague squiggles and stick figures. Glenn is at an entirely different level.


    5. No one "finds themselves" at a precise location or time unless directed, what were the directives


    In working the session Glenn perceived the target person at this time and location. Glenn resolved this in his own mind with no direction or prompting.


    6. So, directive of time and location was given/directed to/by the viewer prior to or at the onset of the session, or perhaps a directive during ?


    Glenn was given only the target ID. When he resolved in his mind that the target was a person, and that person was involved in a portrait session, he then came up with a method to insert his message.

    7. How many times did this happen ? Presumably while back in the S-5 Theta.

    After working the initial session on camera, Glenn revisited the target at the time of the photograph and spent several hours replaying it, tracing the letters while standing between the camera and the subject.


    8. Not being picky, but why examine every centimeter, when the exact location was already known ? I mean you state that he etched them into this chap's forehead !

    Prior to feedback and prior to inspecting the photograph of the target individual Glenn first told us he thought he might have inserted the message into a photo. He didn’t specify where. I actually spent the good part of an entire day going over a photograph in Photoshop, blowing it up, changing contrast, using various filters. I wasn’t looking in the right place. Later, Debra and I went to Glenn’s house and we downloaded a copy of the photograph off the internet. The three of us were huddled over the computer and Glenn said, “Here, on the forehead, over his left eyebrow.”

    And now that I've mentioned Photoshop, we want to be sure no one can accuse us of altering the photo in question. It is in the Library of Congress and when we reveal the target and reference the photo anyone will be able to order a pristine print from the Library of Congress and see the message. Unless Glenn managed to break into the Library of Congress you won't be able to accuse us manipulating the original photograph. At this point we only have copies downloaded from the internet. It is one reason we are not revealing the photo at this point. We're waiting to get our copy from the Library of Congress.


    9. Wow ! If they are that hard to spot then they must be really small, and to actually say that "it even LOOKS like his penmanship", well that is a big claim.

    The letters are indeed small and you must zoom in on that portion of the subject’s forehead to see the letters, but you can see them. I have video from years past of Glenn giving lectures and writing in all caps on a white board. I’ll prepare a comparison for my presentation


    10. This has me at attention, to be able to "see" all this from the reflection from a small pair of spectacles...is incredible !




    The faces are a little bit creepy.


    11. Of course ! This is what everyone will be asking.


    Hey, I’m a TV guy. I know how to do what we call in the business a “Tease” to increase ratings. I hope to present this at IRVA. I think it will be a fascinating presentation.


    12. If established as "fact" Then I can see this being a game of "tag the photo" the new and latest game craze, created in the Rv community, and attributed to ...GW !

    I don’t think many remote viewers have the skill to remote view at the level Glenn demonstrated in his initial session on camera, let alone go back and do what he did at target to insert the message.

    13. Note...watch the movies Back to the Future !

    14. Agreed, very...very interesting.


    As I say folks these comments/observations are really me trying to clarify things in my own mind, before going crazy I would love to have some responses to the aforementioned, and hey ! Lets us have a peek at the photo !...please I am standing ( sitting actually ! ) here with much anticipation

    I think this is a significant event in civilian remote viewing, worth consideration. I’m sure it will be dissected and debated with some vigor. Thanks again for your comments. Feel free to post any more questions that come to mind.

    See you in Las Vegas in June at the IRVA conference. Maybe George Noory might have me on to discuss this with links to the photographs.
    I’ve attached a video still frame of the target envelope sitting on the board the night Glenn worked his session. That’s all he knew about the target.

    Aloha,

    Dick

  8. #8
    Dick Allgire Guest

    Default Target Envelope

    This all Glenn got when he worked the project.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    daz smith Guest

    Default

    Guys, a very interesting project and now I've digested it I have a couple of questions & thoughts if you don't mind.

    How blind was the experiment - was the tasker or anyone who knew the target in the vicinity (say 50m) of the experiment? From the descriptions it sounds like the tasker was in the room.

    How was the project constructed - if the viewer knew it would be an attempt to leave a message behind for example - wouldn't this be a form of front loading as you'd generally only leave a message on a photo or picture?

    The feedback image you are saying you changed - are you saying this is one you got online and not the actual image you say you changed?

    If so I guess you're thinking that also all copies of the image have also changed?

    As an online copy isn't the target -which iwas the actual image - then to validate this any further only a copy of the image in the library would suffice.
    So I guess it all hangs on this?

    Also online versions like .jpegs have gone through all kind of compression algorithms which change the image and would not be advisable feedback for a project like this.

    Is the text clear or is it interpretational?

    Wouldn't this experiment need a control sample - i.e. a copy of the image before the experiment to show a change had taken place. If there is writing then we cant prove a change occurred so yes we would have to also look at other options like:
    Glenn affecting the image
    coincidence
    others...

    The faces you see in the image - how do you know they weren't all there before? Again is all this is a downloaded .jpeg or net image which may have been changed form the original intentionally or by computer processes?

    interesting concept and experiment - look forward to hearing more.

    all the best...

    Daz
    Last edited by daz smith; 2009-Mar-31 Tue at 08:07.

  10. #10
    Dick Allgire Guest

    Default Replies for Daz

    Hi Daz,

    Here you go.

    Guys, a very interesting project and now I've digested it I have a couple of questions & thoughts if you don't mind.


    Thanks for posting these questions. We’re happy to discuss our work. I think I may have jumped the gun on this one. Glenn may have wanted more time to analyze and reflect, before putting this out in public forums, but I sort of spilled the beans. If this is a bit premature it’s my fault, but questions are good.

    This was not intended to be a scientific experiment, rather a demonstration. Mainstream science would never accept this, would always require more controls, demand more proof, create more hoops to jump through, never accepting results as "evidence."

    Disregarding the issue of whether a message was sent to the past, science would have a difficult time reconciling this work as a simple validation target. Daz, I think even you will have to adjust your parameters a bit when you see the data collected by Glenn in the session.

    Glenn wanted to do 5 demonstration targets. The purpose is not to prove he can stand there and hit target. He is curious about determining whether viewers actually go to the past event in its own time and not some recording of the event. And he’s interested in whether a viewer has enough presence to affect target and actually send a message. But Glenn’s simple validation session is so good, so beyond anything thing produced by most other remote viewers, that just the simple verifiable validation target aspects of the session (without any time message) make this incredible. Daz, I promise you’ve never seen a session like this. We’ll make sure you get a copy of the raw unedited video at some later date.


    How blind was the experiment - was the tasker or anyone who knew the target in the vicinity (say 50m) of the experiment? From the descriptions it sounds like the tasker was in the room.

    There were two people present who knew the target cue; myself and Debra. Are you suggesting that if we were, say, 52 meters away Glenn’s session would have contained less valid data? How? (I hope we don’t get off on a telepathic overlay tangent here. )

    How was the project constructed - if the viewer knew it would be an attempt to leave a message behind for example - wouldn't this be a form of front loading as you'd generally only leave a message on a photo or picture?

    I have Glenn's instruction on tape and can transcribe it for you, or post it as a video. Let me work on that tonight. We knew Glenn was looking for a way to affect something in the past, in a manner that would place a message that would be visible now. The only frontloading was that Glenn knew the target would be a past event, or location, person, or object. Glenn’s last attempt was a balloon festival in a location with a rich Native American history. It involved chipping a petroglyph on a rock wall. This one could have been painting, skywriting, music, recorded spoken word, Morse code, newsprint, photography, snow sculpture, basket weaving, the list goes on. We were thinking about whether we could have someone place a personal ad in the New York times in 1972 that said, "HRVG rocks" or something like that.

    Glenn did not know the target involved photography. There was no frontloading.

    The feedback image you are saying you changed - are you saying this is one you got online and not the actual image you say you changed?

    The image is a digital copy of a deguerrotype photograph created in 1875. The copy we have examined is from an internet reference site.

    If so I guess you're thinking that also all copies of the image have also changed?

    We're thinking Glenn caused the letters to form on the original photograph at the time it was created, so all subsequent copies also have the letters. They never changed, they are copies of what was on the original. But we would not expect anyone to accept a copy of the image that comes from HRVG, a copy that we have have had in our possession. We all have Photoshop. We expect anyone will be able to order their own copy from the Library of Congress and find the message in that copy.

    As an online copy isn't the target -which iwas the actual image - then to validate this any further only a copy of the image in the library would suffice.
    So I guess it all hangs on this?


    Let's be clear about this. Glenn did not remote view a photograph. The target was not the actual image. The target was the person. Glenn's session details his entire life. Glenn focused on an event in his life- his portrait photograph in 1875, but that wasn't the target. The man himself was the target. We didn't write a target cue that said, "Go place a message on this photograph." The target cue was the man's name. When Debra and I gave Glenn the target we did not know how he might go about placing a message. Glenn came up with his plan after working his initial session, prior to feedback.



    Also online versions like .jpegs have gone through all kind of compression algorithms which change the image and would not be advisable feedback for a project like this.

    You have a point there. We have downloaded different versions of the photo, in which the letters have different degrees of clarity. This is one reason we're going over all this before making it public. The message is visible at a certain resolution and size.


    Is the text clear or is it interpretational?


    Several of the letters are quite clear. It is to a degree interpretational. But I see the message and I see Glenn’s style of writing block letters.

    Daz, one reason we're not publishing this yet. We decided to show the image to several well known and respected members of the RV community and get their opinion. Do they see it? Sort of a sanity check.

    Wouldn't this experiment need a control sample - i.e. a copy of the image before the experiment to show a change had taken place.

    Think for a moment. How could we get a copy of the image before the experiment? If this happened then the experiment took place in 1875 at the moment the image was made. All copies are copies of the original, and if this worked Glenn affected the original, not the copy we later downloaded.

    If there is writing then we cant prove a change occurred so yes we would have to also look at other options like:
    Glenn affecting the image
    coincidence
    others...


    Coincidence :-)

    The faces you see in the image - how do you know they weren't all there before? Again is all this is a downloaded .jpeg or net image which may have been changed form the original intentionally or by computer processes?

    I think the faces are the faces and we're not going to try to explain or understand those.

    interesting concept and experiment - look forward to hearing more.

    all the best...



    Thanks again for your questions Daz. I'm sure my responses will elicit more questions and comments. Please fire away. This is interesting.

    Aloha,

    Dick

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