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Thread: Hrvg gets thrown under the CRV bus...

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  1. Default Hrvg gets thrown under the CRV bus...


    When I think of all the hard work of so many people from 1996 to present day I am frankly disgusted to see recent efforts in the CRV community to strip Hrvg of its hard earned identity and cast us in the shadows of TRV. I received an email alerting me to a discussion on the Yahoo CRV list regarding Hrvg’s placement on Daz Smith’s new improved RV Historical MAP. Daz asserts that Hrvg is in fact a derivative of TRV. He discounts our military legacy and implies that Hrvg (and I) have lied about its origins and that we in Hrvg made up our methodology by stealing ideas and content from CRV.

    Those of you who have been here these long years certainly know that this is not the case. As far as the CRV list is concerned I made multiple efforts to counter-post challenging Daz’s claims but it was to no avail. With Daz posturing himself to be recognized as an RV historian it is doubtful he will withdraw his assertions.

    It is a sad day for RV and Hrvg. There is much more to say about this but I am far too angry to continue just now.


  2. #2


    Perhaps Daz will be good enough to lay out his evidence for making such statements. Evidence are not someone else’s statement (hear say) but hard facts. Personally I think proof would be hard to present due to all the secrecy that surrounds the beginning of remote viewing. While it is true that much of its beginnings as well as later events have been declassified that’s not true for all of remote viewings history. I’m speaking of the original groups put together by the US government. I’m not referring to anything Ed Dames or his splinter groups concocted; I still find them suspect.

    I also wonder why Daz would choose to deliberately create such dissension after such a long time of peace in the community unless he feels hurt by something said or done here at HRVG; feelings can run high when there are disagreements.


  3. #3


    What is TRV

  4. Thumbs down Daz is no leader...

    Aloha Robert,

    Daz is trying to present himself as one of the leaders in the remote viewing community as well as the “New Historian” of the RV world. After challenging Paul at IRVA on numerous occasions and then leaving the forum there he has now begun the same practice of bullying his way over Hrvg and its history. I for one will not be bullied into letting him attempt to re-write history. I certainly give him no credibility as a leader or as a historian.


  5. #5

    Default Hopefully it's just his Version 1 map.

    I just took a look at Daz's map and it does seem a bit skewed. It kind of reminds me of the maps of Boston where Boston's boundaries take up half of the continent... to say the least, it's a bit CRV-centric. It's really more of a marketing history.

    Unfortunately, the best secrets are the ones that people have to keep. We have to infer the real history of covert missions by "reading between the lines" or in artistic terms, "drawing using negative space."

    HRVG has made its case empirically, publishing hundreds of double-blind, high-bandwidth sessions for the world to see and is recognized for introducing new research and techniques. Many groups focus on a frozen protocol and argue descendence like religious sects.

    Glenn's provenance has been available for years, re:
    About Glenn Wheaton

    ...I particularly like the BBC's disclaimer in the credits of "The Men Who Stare at Goats": Disclaimer

    The significant history of RV is a work in progress. Glenn and HRVG will have a prominent presence.

  6. #6


    TRV is another concocted version of CRV as is SRV as are some other versions of remote viewing. If I am not mistaken TRV is an off shoot of something Ed Dames was trying to sell the public years back. I don’t pretend to know the history of his enterprise but I understand that there was some conflict, the nature of which I do not know, and he ended up selling out to new owners. TRV is Technical Remote Viewing. It IS NOT to be confused with CRV though it may look similar in structure.

    For awhile there was Trans Dimensional Remote Viewing. It had NOTHING in common with CRV at all as far as I could tell. It was started by Prudence Calabrese who studied SRV under Courtney Brown. She left and started her own version of RV. There was some kind of incident of a personal nature that led Ms. Calabrese to stop teaching. However if you’re interested in seeing what the structure of TDS was like you can cut and paste this link:

    then look at bottom of page and click on “TDS remote viewing methods can be down loaded free at……” and click. I took her course but frankly never went far with it. There are people who continue to use her method but I don’t know that there is a website dedicated to her method or not.

    TDS is NOT TRV.

    Personally I have nothing against TRV or the people therein. They have produced some good work if we are to believe the examples they have posted. However, in their beginnings they were loose cannons, much like Dames (no offense intended) and predicted things that were out and out bull squat. As of late they appear to be more responsible. I will have to go back in my materials and find some of their over edge statements. Really though, the past is irrelevant; best to get on with the RV enterprise in my opinion. I think we all have the tendency to get carried away by our own thoughts and opinions.


  7. #7


    Is this the map that is referred to here? I got it from Google Images a couple of months back and have been meaning to ask Dick if he knew of its existence.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
    Dick Allgire Guest

    Default Regarding Glenn Wheaton And RV "History"

    The accusation that Glenn Wheaton somehow borrowed or adapted any portion of CRV or TRV methodology is completely baseless. Anyone who would suggest that, repeat it or even imply it is merely demonstrating his own ignorance.

    My first exposure to any type of remote viewing instruction occurred in January 1997, at an event hosted in Hilo on the Big Island of Hawaii. Ed Dames and Joni Dourif had taught a doctor and his wife over the course of a week, and the doctor threw a party to celebrate the conclusion of the course. It was a “meet and greet” event with Ed and Joni, and they graciously gave an introductory presentation on TRV. I flew over to the Big Island to meet Ed and Joni and to listen to them give their overview of TRV and the theory behind it. (Joni repeated this lecture at the IRVA conference in Mesquite, Nevada and I have one of the few video copies of the event.)

    I later obtained the TRV video instruction course and studied that. HRVG also purchased a copy the TRV course and the entire group watched it, mostly to appreciate the vast differences between the method developed by US Special Forces and TRV. Nothing from the TRV instruction was used, adapted, or employed in the HRVG course.

    In April 1997 I attended Dr. Courtney Brown’s Farsight Institute in Atlanta, Georgia. (I paid $3,000.) I learned SRV and was able to produce valid target data using this method. I still have all my notes, and every page of work produced during the week-long intensive course. I returned to Hawaii and continued my training with Cy Shinkawa, an advanced SRV associate. At Glenn’s urging I introduced the SRV method to students at HRVG, not to incorporate any protocol of SRV into our training, but to allow students to appreciate the differences, and to understand the similarities. It is all about communication with the subconscious, but there are differences in how that communication is initiated.

    It was in the summer of 1997 that I heard a former military remote viewer on Oahu was conducting training. A new class was forming, and I was invited to a free introductory lecture. Since I was eager to continue my remote viewing training, I went to the lecture.

    Meeting Ed Dames was interesting. Attending Farsight was fairly mind-boggling, in a good way. But from the first moment on, that lecture by Glenn Wheaton was a life-changing event.

    I’m an observer and a communicator. It’s what I have done professionally for 35 years. Every day I meet, listen to, interact with, scrutinize, evaluate, and report on people. I go to meetings, speeches, and press conferences. I hear presentations. My job is to listen to people talk, and then decide if any portion of what they said is important or worth repeating. I listen to people drone and intone, complain, proclaim, and inflame, and once in a while I hear someone extraordinary. I’m a professional listener. Glenn Wheaton is extraordinary and unique.

    Here was the real deal, the genuine legitimate article. There was no phony showmanship when he spoke, just a self assured manner and obvious intelligence. He pulled out his military ID card and showed it to the audience, but this was hardly necessary. He couldn’t hide his military bearing if he tried and his passion for remote viewing was unmistakable.

    During the lecture Glenn held up a sketch and showed it to the audience. It was work that had been produced in the first class. “This is an Ideogram,” Glenn stated.

    I looked at it and thought to myself, “That’s not an ideogram! I know what an ideogram is, I already learned about all that from Ed Dames and Courtney Brown. An ideogram should be something like sloping up, curving down, horizontal across.”

    Yes, I was familiar with the TRV- SRV concept of Ideograms. Both Ed Dames and Courtney Brown taught (from the Ingo Swan lineage) that ideograms are involuntary, autonomic responses to the target that the body physically reacts to by creating a flat ideogram for land, a peaked ideogram for mountain, right angle ideogram for structure, etc.

    What Glenn was holding up was a sketch that exactly resembled the target photograph. CRV, TRV, SRV doctrine didn’t allow for this.

    So Glenn showed us VISUAL ideograms, ideograms created by closing your eyes and looking on Blackboard. Closing your eyes was not allowed in any training we ever heard about in TRV and SRV. The concept of a place called “blackboard” was something never described in the TRV method.

    I remember Joni Dourif –while giving a presentation on TRV- stating, “What you (HRVG) do is out of protocol! That’s too high level data!”

    Apparently seeing the target is not permitted in this form of remote viewing. Glenn Wheaton certainly did not use any part of TRV methodology in his instruction at HRVG.

    As I was training with Glenn I realized that the differences in the methods were so profound that I actually emailed Paul Smith and asked him, “Are you familiar with a probing icon known as NIMO that employs NLP to facilitate communication with the subconscious?” Paul emailed me back, “nope, never heard of that.”

    I’ve read the CRV manual. I’ve done analysis on CRV sessions for a number of projects that I have published and presented. Check out my last presentation at IRVA, there is TRV, SRV, CRV work in there. I highlighted some work produced for me by a viewer named Daz Smith. I’ve studied SRV and TRV and have worked targets using both methods. CRV, TRV, SRV is nothing like the method Glenn teaches.

    There is no NLP in the Ingo Swan family tree. HRVG is based on NLP.

    Although his instruction was unique and not based at all on any form of CRV, Glenn urged us to learn everything we could about every form and style of remote viewing, just to be informed and intelligent and understand the differences. Those who claim that Glenn somehow borrowed or adapted TRV have not taken the time or spent the effort to learn what is true, and are committing slander.

    Anyone who repeats this lie really ought to do a lot more homework before trying to write a history of civilian remote viewing.


    Dick Allgire
    June 5, 2010

    (Including the date so I can cut and paste and refer to the date the next time this specious slander is repeated. It has been stinking up the internet for at least 12 years.)

  9. #9
    daz smith Guest


    First I am not trying to set myself up as any kind of rv historian.
    I am also not a bully and anyone will tell you that I have always been honest and fair with everything within RV.

    I am a dedicated student of rv history though and both Paul and myself have helped each other with historical rv research - (I did the dowsing research for his dowsing DVD form the star gate archives and he helps me when i have questions - as he was there) I and am more than happy to debate why my map has HRVG when it is currently located. its not an attck on HRVG its an attempt the get the history of rv down in full as best I can.

    My map has it that GLENN and DICK are both trained in other methods. Glenn in TRV, Dick in SRV and TRV.

    The difference in argument is Glenn does not see it want it to be said he is TRV trained on the map and he says HRVG methods came first/bore this from a military training. Which he cannot verify and i cannot verify against.

    What I can verify it that dick trained in SRV and TRV before HRVG methods and that Glenn was also a student of TRV - which is what my map says?


  10. #10
    Dick Allgire Guest

    Default Don't Put HRVG Under SRV and TRV

    Quote Originally Posted by daz smith View Post

    The difference in argument is Glenn does not see it want it to be said he is TRV trained on the map and he says HRVG methods came first/bore this from a military training. Which he cannot verify and i cannot verify against.

    It cannot be said or implied that Glenn Wheaton is TRV trained. That is not true.

    It is also misleading to put the HRVG lineage beneath TRV as if it were somehow related or adapted from TRV.

    The true history of RV will never be known, certainly not by you. Your attempts to diagram what is mostly the development of one branch (CRV and its offshoots) is haphazard, incomplete and misleading.

    Have you watched my presentation at the 2007 IRVA conference: "HRVG Methodology, An Overview" ?


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