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Thread: Hrvg gets thrown under the CRV bus...

  1. #41
    daz smith Guest


    Are you saying that Paul Smith 'sold' you those databases? Did I read that correct? I have been site admin for a number of sites, among which a still in active operation forum of 40+ thousand members. These 'databases' contain not just posts, but also Private Messages and other privy communication between its members. If mr. Smith did indeed sell, or even give away this information, then that is to be considered a very GRAVE breach of privacy.
    Paul sold me the CIA stargate documents which are in .tiff format.
    The database is my construction. I converted al 90,000 pages to OCR text pdf files. The other files(other than my personal 13 years ol rv emails) are all public domain and website files at one point or another that I have collected.

    So no breach of privacy - its all material I have collected and now store in a very large searchable database.

    Not to derail the topic, but when I read about databases being shared, that rang a big fat alarm bell with me. I hope you're not snooping around in private comms as well, to aid you in drawing up that map.
    I have never shared my database - its my perosnal construction.


    This is a perfect example of tendency… Now I did not say that Paul edited anything, or that he took documents out of it. You said that. You implied that. My point was that you think your Stargate documents are definitive and constitute a truth when in-fact they do not. Because you did not obtain them from the source.
    I disagree the implicationi in your email was that I did not have a full copy of the Stargate Archives and that in it not being full - Paul censored it before selling.

    Firstly when I bought the stragate docs form Paul - it was after years of watching and hearing him discuss rv - always in a professional manner. I trusted him to supply a full uncensored copy of the files. I have since spoken to Paul and he said he did when rearranging the files into some order delete some of the duplicate files. I believe this as some of the files within the archives repeat upto fifteen times. I have no reason to believe that my copy is not a full version other than the omition of a few duplicate files.

    Unless you are saying otherwsie.

    I will bet and I am happy to put in a FOIA request (i have done many in the past) for an original copy of the CIA Stargate docs - but Im 99.9% sure right now - they will not produce a single shred of further evidnece about any secret spec ops rv training.

    This brings us to your map. It is not only incorrect but is actually pedestrian in its portrayal of the architecture of the Remote Viewing research throughout its long history. You omit correctly identifying many key individuals and military organizations. Even the documents you do possess contain names and dates of specific people not mentioned in your map.
    I disagree - yes the head of the units at key times are not named - but there agian a MAP that shows EVERY single person involved in a 30 year history would be an impossible job.

    here is the original email i posted to people to comments on and help me refine the map - which you got being on the CRVERS list:
    please note my bolded text.

    "Hi remote viewers,
    I've been working on this for a while - I wanted to try to get in visual
    form a map showing the progression of Rv from Intel and science through to
    the public domain, the emergence of the different schools and all the key
    players in this process and their relationships.

    So here it is - it never going to be 100% accurate or complete with every
    person accounted for - but it does give an overall accurate picture.

    All the best...


    Heck if I just look at my own organization you list me as the owner when I am not. The Guild was founded by Phillip Lau, Yaana Alin, and Glenn Wheaton. We are the founders. There are 8 instructors at Hrvg who teach and they are not to be found in your map.
    Thats fine - as I said to everyone form the start - its not 100% correct and its not final - If you want me to add to your HRVG listing then I can.

    It is very easy to just say INSCOM, but who in INSCOM? What specific unit or organization in INSCOM? What was Chief Warrant Officer Joseph McMoneagle’s organizational assignment? What section in DIA was responsible for the remote viewing effort? What about the CIA? What desk or section administered the program?
    Glenn its a visual map not a book - if people want a complete history then its best to read a book. Adding small details like this - which you don't get in visual maps - overweight the map and its use - which its an overview.

    So what you have is not a truth, it is less than true. It is more of an abridged story and less a record that can be authenticated.
    No what I have is a map that has been created to the best of my ability and knowledge - never claimed as being 100% correct or final. Your being anal here - visual maps dont generally do what you are asking - these are left for larer tomes like books and documents.

    When you tell me to break my oaths and spill the beans about RV in SOF to prove something to you (a foreign national) I am not inclined in the slightest to give you information you are not entitled by US law to have. Whether you believe me or not is unimportant.
    Glenn in My opinion and in the past opinions of many including Paul Smith and Lyn Buchanan - this is rubbish!
    You have stated in printed word on video and more that you were part of a secret project (JEDI) that you saw a goat being killed, that you were trained in military remoet viewing and more. If this isn't breaking your 'alleged' security oath then what would be?
    A secret means nothing is to be discussed - not even the name of it. The ONLY reason you cant say anything else is because there is nothing else.
    Your playing a game of smoke and mirrors and it wasnt believed by Paul, Lyn, Ed myself and others ten years ago - and its not believable now.

    Did any other Uniformed Services besides the United States Army ever investigate, or start an effort to explore remote Viewing? What do you think the answer would be?
    I already know what the answer would be - i have documents. we know that other parts of the military looked into psychic skills - this doesn't mean that you were a spec ops trained remoet viewer - your stretching this so far its like playing 'Stretch Armstrong' with you.

    But are these entities on your map? Do you know anyone from these efforts? If someone from these projects came forward they would face the same issues I do.
    Glenn these entities arent on my map becasue;
    a. they arent on the RV world radar
    b. arent out in the world doing rv and teacheing/running businesses
    c. they didn't actually remote view but ad hoc loosely 'played' with psi

    Is Daz MI-5 or MI-6? ;-)
    Maybe i was trained as an MI5 agent for a secret program called 'xxxx' but i am not allowed to discuss any of the work we did or that the fact it was a secret project and we uses xx technhiues.

    Unless people have been sending Daz private recipient-intended emails (which should only be available from the recipient), I don’t think he’s been looking at anything that wasn’t public.

    The main information source that Daz is referring to is the “Stargate Archives”. When the Stargate project ended, a bunch of boxes of papers, articles, session notes, receipts, proposals, correspondences, and such were sent to the National Archives. Because the project was secret, none of the documents could be released without being declassified, that is, officially stamped to indicate that they were “no longer secret”.

    The declassification process requires that people who thoroughly understand the subject matter and have the proper security clearances go through the available material to decide what is appropriate to release to the world and what information to keep secret. Paul Smith was involved with the declassification requests and possibly the declassification process. In late 2005 or early 2006, the declassified documents were made available electronically by the government. For a nominal fee, Paul distributed these documents or a subset of these documents on CDs and included sort of a “field guide” that he had written indicating how the data was stored and where you might find some interesting items.
    My emails have not been quoted or published and are just for my perosnal reference to rv history. The forums posts and public e-lists have been used.
    Im not aware Paul was included in the declassification process, Ed May was as he was the last Program Director. Paul was long gone before declassification.

    As Dick pointed out, HRVG’s provenance has been presented in the only official forum for RV, it just hasn’t presented as text so this –official- information is being filtered out of Daz’s current map.
    Tis true - I have not seen the IRVA video of this talk.

    Jim Channon, another Jedi that Daz is wondering about, will be the keynote speaker at IRVA within the next couple of weeks. I imagine that there will be some interesting history to report for anyone who listens.
    Maybe maybe not - (If i am correct) doesn't he say on his website FAQ's that his work was only ideas like a think tank and he was not involved in anything paranormal in the military, and that he hasnt a clue if they killed goats at Ft. Bragg?

    Aloha Debra,

    Hmmm prolly whould have to be MI-6. But he couldn't admit to it.
    This is my problem - if your work was so secret how come you have part admited and disicssued it but not in detail?

    On a separate note NO I am not MI anything - although I have hassled them for years on various topics using the FOIA (so they will have a file of my letters) and I did get a massive 1000 page DI (defence Intelligence) document on remote viewing/PSi released from the UK MOD a few yrs back.

    I know what Daz is trying to do and while his map is certainly eye-catching it simply doesn’t really reflect even the known history accurately. There are certain things it just doesn’t illustrate and that is because he does not define out the relationships. I will give a few examples.
    I disagree as a visual overview of the key players now and then it does a fairly accurate job.

    Daz has relied heavily on PJ for his open source information. She was the mastermind behind the “Your RV Sucks” website and even now controls the dominate RV hate site “TKR”. She has a long history of clashes with Hrvg and under no circumstances can be considered non-partisan.
    I relied on my 13 years experience and database of 13 years of material from all available public sources. You keep trying to blame PJ for my comments - with no evidence. This is my map, my creation, from mainly my material.
    This hasn othing to do with TKR or PJ. you want to complain then the fight is with me on my map not PJ or TKR. Again another use of smoke and mirrors.

    Anyone can see for themselves - just go back to January 2000 on things like the public Yahoo group - Stargate e-list - there is a long and heated debate on all this and comments form people like Lyn Buchanan and Paul Smith - its all there in public for people to see.

    Paul helped me with some errors of military details, Lyn with dates, PJ with the inclusion of TKR in the map, other people helped me with TDS history and other small things.

    As I said from the start - ANYONE can create their own map of rv history - if you don't like mine then you can create your own. But I can also amend the HRVG section on the map to included some of your comments if you wish.


  2. Default Rubbish...


    I have been waiting for you to say what you really mean and you didnít let me down. Nothing like a little vitriol to start the day. Daz I do not care if you do not think or believe that Intelligence in SOF looked into Remote Viewing. We have reached the fringe of civility.

    It is at this point that I request that you remove any mention of Hrvg from your map. Hrvg is an approved State and Federal non-profit organization and we hold the copyright for our name and do not wish it to be used by someone whose belief will make it subject to misrepresentation to the public.


  3. #43
    daz smith Guest


    first don't misquote me I never said that Sec ops didn't 'look into remote viewing' I said there is no tangible proof they 'trained you in remote viewing' there is s difference.

    by all means suggest that I annex HRVG from RV history.
    The map does not defame of misrepresent HRVG or contravene any copyright laws it represents a fair viewpoint based on available evidnece.

    Copyright is the set of exclusive rights granted to the author or creator of an original work, including the right to copy, distribute and adapt the work. These rights can be licensed, transferred and/or assigned. Copyright lasts for a certain time period after which the work is said to enter the public domain. Copyright applies to a wide range of works that are substantive and fixed in a medium. Some jurisdictions also recognize "moral rights" of the creator of a work, such as the right to be credited for the work.
    I only mention the name of HRVG and do not copy or distribute any work. Therefore have broken no copyright?

    Daz Smith

  4. Default


    I do not care what you believe. What I do care about is your attempts to discredit me in a community of my peers and allege that I am a liar and a thief. Regardless it reflects directly on those I have trained and the organization we have built.

    You talk about Special Ops like you know something about it. You do not. You donít know and cannot understand the hard work, risks, or sacrifices we have made year after year. So donít talk to me anymore about Special OPS. I have tolerated it but no more.

    Chief Joseph McMoneagle made a statement many years ago on my behalf.


    "As a separate issue; I have been asked about Glenn's military history in the past. I now reiterate, I've known Glenn for a long time. As a result of conversations I had with MG Burt Stubblebine and others within the Command at INSCOM between 1984 and 1985, I know that Glenn Wheaten was part of a 'Special Forces Team that was introduced to RV.' Since this subject involves Glenn and whatever agreements he's made with the government, it is not for me to say anything else about the matter. I will add that I also knew Glenn as a Special Forces soldier, and his character and abilities, like many of those I knew in the Army back then was beyond reproach. For that alone, he deserves the appropriate consideration and respect for his service to God and Country."


    You canít seem to understand that I am not going to tell you information you have no right to know. If the result of that is that I am to be hounded and accused, called a thief and a liar, then I guess I will continue to deal with that from you; keep in mind that also has its own price.


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