Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 44

Thread: Hrvg gets thrown under the CRV bus...

  1. Default OK let's escalate...

    I have come up with a plan that I think may work. Now there are folks who know I come out of SF Intell and to some that is "The Dark Side". While we do lots of good things, we also do all the very bad things that make things like the Geneva Convention oh so much toilet paper. So here is my game.

    You got a library and I have a library. Let's take everyone in the RV world and apply your standards of belief to them. To be fair I will begin alphabetically. Everything they have said and done over all these years on radio, TV, in print, on the web and in conversations for which there is a record.

    You cannot trust anyone. Does your library have the Stargate documents from Paul or did you do what we did and process the appropriate forms to the US Government to get those documents? We actually did both and you know what...the document count is way wrong. So you don't really know what is missing now do you. Back to my plan....

    As I said we take everyone including me and hold them to the exact same standard. We won't leave out any dirt so this wont be for the faint of heart. You want to check some closets and check for skeletons then I am all for it.

    While I will not break my oath and spill the secrets, I think I am over qualified to give you a tour of the bullshit. So throw some Wagner on the old IPOD and get ready.

    W.

  2. #32
    daz smith Guest

    Default

    You cannot trust anyone. Does your library have the Stargate documents from Paul or did you do what we did and process the appropriate forms to the US Government to get those documents? We actually did both and you know what...the document count is way wrong. So you don't really know what is missing now do you. Back to my plan....
    So you are now claiming that paul editied the library he sold and took certain documents out of it?

    I will check with Paul on this - I think I did enquire if the copy sold was the entire archive - but will check.

    PLAN we need to no plan - other than this plan:

    After over 10 years of ducking and diving and avading Paul, Lyns and many other peoples request for proof of militray rv training - how about proof.

    now thats a plan.

    As I said we take everyone including me and hold them to the exact same standard. We won't leave out any dirt so this wont be for the faint of heart. You want to check some closets and check for skeletons then I am all for it.
    Yep lest go for it - im happy to discuss the truth and if my map is incorrect and there is tangible proof to show otherwise I will change it - I've said this all along.

    so lets have your skeletons?

    daz
    Last edited by daz smith; 2010-Jun-09 Wed at 07:52.

  3. #33

    Default

    Not choosing sides here and for all intents and purposes I rather stay out of this argument altogether, but I have a question for you Daz.

    Are you saying that Paul Smith 'sold' you those databases? Did I read that correct? I have been site admin for a number of sites, among which a still in active operation forum of 40+ thousand members. These 'databases' contain not just posts, but also Private Messages and other privy communication between its members. If mr. Smith did indeed sell, or even give away this information, then that is to be considered a very GRAVE breach of privacy.

    Not to derail the topic, but when I read about databases being shared, that rang a big fat alarm bell with me. I hope you're not snooping around in private comms as well, to aid you in drawing up that map.

    Just my 0.2.

  4. Default Good Morning!

    Ahhh A perfect example.

    Let’s see I said…
    ---------
    “Does your library have the Stargate documents from Paul or did you do what we did and process the appropriate forms to the US Government to get those documents? We actually did both and you know what...the document count is way wrong. So you don't really know what is missing now do you?”
    --------
    Then you replied…
    ----------
    So you are now claiming that paul editied the library he sold and took certain documents out of it?
    --------
    This is a perfect example of tendency… Now I did not say that Paul edited anything, or that he took documents out of it. You said that. You implied that. My point was that you think your Stargate documents are definitive and constitute a truth when in-fact they do not. Because you did not obtain them from the source.

    This brings us to your map. It is not only incorrect but is actually pedestrian in its portrayal of the architecture of the Remote Viewing research throughout its long history. You omit correctly identifying many key individuals and military organizations. Even the documents you do possess contain names and dates of specific people not mentioned in your map. Heck if I just look at my own organization you list me as the owner when I am not. The Guild was founded by Phillip Lau, Yaana Alin, and Glenn Wheaton. We are the founders. There are 8 instructors at Hrvg who teach and they are not to be found in your map. It is very easy to just say INSCOM, but who in INSCOM? What specific unit or organization in INSCOM? What was Chief Warrant Officer Joseph McMoneagle’s organizational assignment? What section in DIA was responsible for the remote viewing effort? What about the CIA? What desk or section administered the program?

    So what you have is not a truth, it is less than true. It is more of an abridged story and less a record that can be authenticated.

    Ohhh time for a skeleton. By the way Dale Graff never commanded anything, only the President and commissioned officers can command. What civilian director (hint above) tasked the unit to spy on an American in violation of USSID 18? Now that’s a skeleton worth finding.

    When you tell me to break my oaths and spill the beans about RV in SOF to prove something to you (a foreign national) I am not inclined in the slightest to give you information you are not entitled by US law to have. Whether you believe me or not is unimportant.

    If you ask Paul the following question…

    Did any other Uniformed Services besides the United States Army ever investigate, or start an effort to explore remote Viewing? What do you think the answer would be?

    He will say yes.

    But are these entities on your map? Do you know anyone from these efforts? If someone from these projects came forward they would face the same issues I do.

    More as it happens…

    W.
    Last edited by Glenn B. Wheaton; 2010-Jun-09 Wed at 11:18.

  5. #35

    Default Foreigners!!!!!

    Is Daz MI-5 or MI-6? ;-)

  6. #36

    Default The database - for Coehn

    Unless people have been sending Daz private recipient-intended emails (which should only be available from the recipient), I don’t think he’s been looking at anything that wasn’t public.

    The main information source that Daz is referring to is the “Stargate Archives”. When the Stargate project ended, a bunch of boxes of papers, articles, session notes, receipts, proposals, correspondences, and such were sent to the National Archives. Because the project was secret, none of the documents could be released without being declassified, that is, officially stamped to indicate that they were “no longer secret”.

    The declassification process requires that people who thoroughly understand the subject matter and have the proper security clearances go through the available material to decide what is appropriate to release to the world and what information to keep secret. Paul Smith was involved with the declassification requests and possibly the declassification process. In late 2005 or early 2006, the declassified documents were made available electronically by the government. For a nominal fee, Paul distributed these documents or a subset of these documents on CDs and included sort of a “field guide” that he had written indicating how the data was stored and where you might find some interesting items.

    The CDs comprised over 80,000 items stored in the government’s multi-image tiff file format , paired OCR text files for the items, and a set of Excel sheets with document IDs, titles (all in uppercase), CD indexes, National Archive box numbers, and other access information. Needless to say, this was an unwieldy way to look at the material and many of us who obtained the CDs combined the contents for direct access and made our own databases to handle the material.

    What was released was kind of a jumble. As an early adopter, I perused the contents using the available text (the copy qualities and OCR text were pretty sketchy) in a data mining fashion and linked the contents back to the image documents because it seemed like the only efficient way to view them. I gave Paul an installable copy that year (although I don’t know if he ever tried it) because I recognized how much work was involved in the effort and thought it might save him some time.

    [Around 2007, Tamra Temple made an Excel-based index for the archives that she offered for sale. I believe that she looked through the documents directly and grouped them. I haven’t used her product so I’m not sure exactly what or how she covered the material.]

    I respect the amount of work involved. It would be natural for Daz to create a similar database and to download –public- forum content to add to the text pool.

    So Daz’s data sources are probably public, but mainly represent a particular “searchable text” subset of the information that is available.

    The IRVA (International Remote Viewing Association) is the most “official” group for presenting and maintaining remote viewing information. IRVA convenes annually and provides a peer group where people share history and ongoing research. IRVA presentations are available to the public on DVDs, but text transcripts haven’t been made available. As Dick pointed out, HRVG’s provenance has been presented in the only official forum for RV, it just hasn’t presented as text so this –official- information is being filtered out of Daz’s current map.

    Jim Channon, another Jedi that Daz is wondering about, will be the keynote speaker at IRVA within the next couple of weeks. I imagine that there will be some interesting history to report for anyone who listens.

  7. Default Foriegners!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Debra View Post
    Is Daz MI-5 or MI-6? ;-)
    Aloha Debra,

    Hmmm prolly whould have to be MI-6. But he couldn't admit to it.

    W.

  8. Default Bosses...

    Aloha Dave,
    Excellent comments, Colonel Channon (really LTC) would be the original Jedi, an Imagineer beyond even Walt Disney.
    I know what Daz is trying to do and while his map is certainly eye-catching it simply doesn’t really reflect even the known history accurately. There are certain things it just doesn’t illustrate and that is because he does not define out the relationships. I will give a few examples.

    Who is INSCOM’s boss? It is certainly not the DIA and certainly not the CIA. These were INSCOM soldiers Skip, Bill, Joe, Paul, Lyn, David, ED et all were actually assigned to a specific military unit which goes unidentified. While they certainly may be OPCON (operational control) to an office at the DIA they were in fact garrisoned next door to their real boss, the NSA. People who look at the Stargate records can easily recover the architecture by decoding the message distribution. It really is an effort worth doing right.

    Daz has relied heavily on PJ for his open source information. She was the mastermind behind the “Your RV Sucks” website and even now controls the dominate RV hate site “TKR”. She has a long history of clashes with Hrvg and under no circumstances can be considered non-partisan.

    W.

  9. #39

    Default Back to basics

    The proof is in the protocol. Enough said.

    Aloha,
    Jim K.

  10. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Barnes View Post
    Unless people have been sending Daz private recipient-intended emails (which should only be available from the recipient), I don’t think he’s been looking at anything that wasn’t public.
    I hope I didn't come across as implying he was. It was just something I read and (as we say in my country) makes my hair stand up straight.

    I believe (and to a certain extent 'know' (at least from what I have read in so-called conspiracy theory websites)) that the US government is very rigorous about its release of information in the public domain, whether by ending of a predetermined classification date, or through the FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act). But even so, we all know how a certain Gary Mc K. was able to access very classified information using only his home computer and Internet access. Thus, although your elaborate explanation (thanks for that by the way) certainly proves the bulk of these cases are handled well, sometimes mistakes are made. And I can imagine that going through a database with thousands upon thousands of 'records' some things might be skipped because it's simply too vast to check word for word.

    Don't take this the wrong way. I can see you're very knowledgeable in this area. I'm just stating the obvious that regardless of all the security in place, these things are common.

    Now, back to topic? Or back to remote viewing? ;o)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •